No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp

This is our unabridged interview with Carlos Whittaker.

Carlos Whittaker was spending the equivalent of 100 full days a year on his phone.

You might not be far behind.

Carlos—an author and social media influencer who has raised millions for charity online—realized he was scrolling his life away. So he tried something drastic. In his book ⁠Reconnected: How 7 Screen-Free Weeks with Monks and Amish Farmers Helped Me Recover the Lost Art of Being Human⁠, he recounts the experiment that changed everything: seven weeks completely unplugged.

The results were sta...

⁠⁠⁠In the first episode of 2026, we are diving into Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery to explore what it reveals about faith, leadership, hypocrisy, presence, and how competing visions of Christianity shape real people and communities.

In this episode of The Subtext, we dive beneath the mystery of Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery to explore what the film exposes about faith, church culture, power, and human nature. Through the contrast of Father Jud’s vision for self-giving love and Monsignor Wicks’ manipulative, rage-driven religiosity, we unpack themes of projection and hypocrisy, insecure versus secure spi...

Carlos Whittaker was spending the equivalent of 100 full days a year on his phone.

You might not be far behind.

Carlos—an author and social media influencer who has raised millions for charity online—realized he was scrolling his life away. So he tried something drastic. In his book Reconnected: How 7 Screen-Free Weeks with Monks and Amish Farmers Helped Me Recover the Lost Art of Being Human, he recounts the experiment that changed everything: seven weeks completely unplugged.

The results were startling. According to before-and-after brain scans and cognitive testing from Dr. Daniel Amen...

This is our unabridged interview with Charles Duhigg.

What if the biggest lever to your happiness isn’t found in your big decisions, but in the small, automatic things you do every day?

Pulitzer Prize–winning journalist and bestselling author Charles Duhigg joins Lee C. Camp to explore how habits quietly shape our character, our choices, and our capacity for authentic human flourishing. Drawing on Aristotle, neuroscience, and his book ⁠⁠The Power of Habit⁠⁠, Duhigg unpacks the classic “cue–routine–reward” loop, keystone habits, and why willpower alone so often fails us. He then turns to his...

What if the biggest lever to your happiness isn’t found in your big decisions, but in the small, automatic things you do every day?

Pulitzer Prize–winning journalist and bestselling author Charles Duhigg joins Lee C. Camp to explore how habits quietly shape our character, our choices, and our capacity for authentic human flourishing. Drawing on Aristotle, neuroscience, and his book The Power of Habit, Duhigg unpacks the classic “cue–routine–reward” loop, keystone habits, and why willpower alone so often fails us. He then turns to his book Supercommunicators to show how changing the way we speak and...

This is our unabridged interview with Sharon McMahon.

Have you ever wished someone would explain the inner workings of America’s political landscape — without taking sides or fueling the outrage machine? 

With over 1.3 million Instagram followers, Sharon McMahon, known affectionately as “America’s Government Teacher,” has spent her career doing exactly that. Drawing from her roots in public education, Sharon rose to prominence on social media during the chaotic 2020 election season. Her clear, fact-based explanations of complex government processes have garnered her a loyal following of self-proclaimed “Governerds,” and today, her teaching reaches million...

Some moments stay with us long after the episode ends. In this special episode, Lee C. Camp and Jakob Lewis revisit the conversations from 2025 that changed them—clips that still echo with courage, tenderness, and the invitation to live well. 

Key Ideas:

This is our unabridged interview with Munther Isaac.

Imagine you're in charge of pastoring a congregation amidst a war. What does it mean to love your enemies when violence is outside your window, and visceral images of your congregation’s devastation fill your phone? How would you find hope and carry on?

Palestinian Lutheran pastor Munther Isaac joins Lee C. Camp from his home in the West Bank to discuss his book Christ in the Rubble: Faith, the Bible, and the Genocide in Gaza. Drawing from his experience shepherding congregations through two ye...

Family estrangement is rising, but the cultural story behind it is far more complex than “cutting off toxic people.” In this episode, Savannah and Lee unpack the social, psychological, and technological shifts that quietly reshaped our expectations of family. and why forgiveness, repair, and humility might be the most countercultural practices left.

In this episode, Savannah and Lee dig into the cultural forces behind the surge in family estrangement, from postmodern distrust of authority to therapy-speak, safetyism, digital overwhelm, and the luxury of disconnection. Drawing on Rachel Haack’s Substack newsletter, they explore how concept creep, para-connection, and we...

Imagine you're in charge of pastoring a congregation amidst a war. What does it mean to love your enemies when violence is outside your window, and visceral images of your congregation’s devastation fill your phone? How would you find hope and carry on?

Palestinian Lutheran pastor Munther Isaac joins Lee C. Camp from his home in the West Bank to discuss his book Christ in the Rubble: Faith, the Bible, and the Genocide in Gaza. Drawing from his experience shepherding congregations through two years of war, Munther reflects on grief, anger, and the moral danger of be...

This is our unabridged interview with Jeff Chu.

Change can come in the most unlikely places. For Jeff Chu, he found meaning and purpose in a pile of compost.

At the peak of his journalism career — writing for Time and Fast Company, perched 29 floors above Manhattan — Jeff Chu stared out his office window and asked a question he could no longer avoid: “What is this all for?” That moment of vocational and existential reckoning set him on an unexpected journey — one that led to Princeton Theological Seminary, a plot of farmland known as the Far...

AI is reshaping the music industry at a breakneck pace. AI musicians are topping charts, landing record deals, and attracting massive corporate investments. What does this mean for artists? How might this challenge us to think about embodiment, creativity, labor, and what it means to actually be human?

When AI musicians start topping the music charts, we’re not just talking about technology. We’re deciding what makes art human, what makes labor fair, and what makes a person irreplaceable.

AI musicians are breaking into the charts, labels are investing heavily in machine-generated artistry, and Chri...

Change can come in the most unlikely places. For Jeff Chu, he found meaning and purpose in a pile of compost.

At the peak of his journalism career — writing for Time and Fast Company, perched 29 floors above Manhattan — Jeff Chu stared out his office window and asked a question he could no longer avoid: “What is this all for?” That moment of vocational and existential reckoning set him on an unexpected journey — one that led to Princeton Theological Seminary, a plot of farmland known as the Farminary, and ultimately, to the compost pile that led him to write his...

This is our unabridged interview with Hillary McBride.

At sixteen, Lee C. Camp drove five miles over the speed limit and was seized by terror. In his mind, if he died breaking the law, he was going to hell. That childhood fear, shaped by a theology steeped in shame and judgment, is the kind of spiritual residue clinical psychologist Hillary McBride sees in her work every day.

Clinical psychologist and researcher Hillary McBride joins Lee C. Camp to explore spiritual trauma: how religious ideas, communities, and leaders can wound our deepest sense...

What if the real magic of Wicked isn’t the spells, but the way friendship, shame, and belonging shape who we become?

In this episode, Savannah and Lee dive into the deeper themes of Wicked: For Good, from dreams that come true but don’t satisfy, to the power of propaganda, to the power of shame with an in-group/out-group mentality. They also unpack Glinda and Elphaba’s friendship: how Elphaba gives Glinda moral courage and authenticity, and how Glinda gives Elphaba trust, confidence, and a place to be known without performing.

Things...

At sixteen, Lee C. Camp drove five miles over the speed limit and was seized by terror. In his mind, if he died breaking the law, he was going to hell. That childhood fear, shaped by a theology steeped in shame and judgment, is the kind of spiritual residue clinical psychologist Hillary McBride sees in her work every day.

Clinical psychologist and researcher Hillary McBride joins Lee C. Camp to explore spiritual trauma: how religious ideas, communities, and leaders can wound our deepest sense of self — and how healing becomes possible through embodiment, grief, and honest meaning-making. Dr...

This is our unabridged interview with Tara Brach.

How do you accept yourself fully, just as you are? And if you did, would you ever grow?

“Being at peace with how we are in the moment is the precondition to transformation,” says psychologist and meditation teacher Tara Brach.

In this episode she provides us with a simple practice to find peace and transformation known by the acronym RAIN.

“We have amazing potential to change some of the habits that cause ourselves or others harm,” she says, “but we won't be able to...

When the headlines numb and the culture wars grind us down, what if hope isn’t a mood at all—but a practice you can do with your body, your friends, and your city?

In this holiday special, Lee revisits four conversations to find practices of hope: meditation teacher Tara Brach on healing the “trance of unworthiness,” songwriter Tom Paxton on the folk community that fueled social change, marine biologist Ayana Elizabeth Johnson on climate imagination, and educator Sharon McMahon on everyday civic action. Together they offer three grounded practices—for self, for community, and for the common goo...

This is our unabridged interview with Lara Love Hardin.

What if the opposite of addiction isn’t sobriety—but connection? How does a woman go from 32 felony charges to the New York Times bestseller list, lunches with Oprah, and a life devoted to healing?Lara Love Hardin—literary agent, author, and prison-reform advocate—recounts her descent into opioid and heroin addiction, the shame that followed, and the community that made restoration possible. She traces the path from a Santa Cruz jail to acclaimed collaborations with figures like Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama, and to her own...

In this episode, Savannah rounds up several posts her algorithm served her this week: an influencer from The Bachelor warning Christians not to watch Love Island, a pastor speaking about slavery in the Bible, Billie Eilish calling out billionaires, and a thread about SNAP benefits. Plus, a little conspiracy chat to close things out, courtesy of Kim Kardashian and the moon landing.

Things we mentioned in this episode:

James by Percival Everett 

Courage to be Disliked by Fumitake Koga and Ichiro Kishimi

The New Testament and the People o...

What if the opposite of addiction isn’t sobriety—but connection? How does a woman go from 32 felony charges to the New York Times bestseller list, lunches with Oprah, and a life devoted to healing?Lara Love Hardin—literary agent, author, and prison-reform advocate—recounts her descent into opioid and heroin addiction, the shame that followed, and the community that made restoration possible. She traces the path from a Santa Cruz jail to acclaimed collaborations with figures like Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama, and to her own bestselling memoir, The Many Lives of Mama Love. Listeners will hear how prac...

This is our unabridged interview with Rick Steves.

When Rick Steves was 14 years old, he stood in a park behind the Royal Palace in Oslo, watching families dot the grass in joyful togetherness. That was the moment. A dawning awareness that love — deep, sacrificial, attentive love — was not unique to his own family, but radiated across the globe. “This world is filled,” he remembers realizing, “with equally lovable little kids like me. Little children of God.” It was a quiet, early epiphany — but it would shape a life.

Today, Rick Steves is a household na...

In this episode, Savannah and Lee dive into the Netflix series Nobody Wants This, a smart and surprisingly tender rom-com about an agnostic podcaster (Kristen Bell) and a rabbi (Adam Brody) trying to make love work across lines of faith and conviction. The conversation unfolds into bigger questions: How do we love people whose choices we disagree with? When does compromise in a relationship become self-betrayal? Can married people be friends with people of the opposite sex? And what does it mean to convert to a different religion?

Things we mentioned in this episode:<...

When Rick Steves was 14 years old, he stood in a park behind the Royal Palace in Oslo, watching families dot the grass in joyful togetherness. That was the moment. A dawning awareness that love — deep, sacrificial, attentive love — was not unique to his own family, but radiated across the globe. “This world is filled,” he remembers realizing, “with equally lovable little kids like me. Little children of God.” It was a quiet, early epiphany — but it would shape a life.

Today, Rick Steves is a household name. But before the bestselling travel guides and beloved PBS shows, before the adv...

This is our unabridged interview with Pádraig Ó Tuama.

Pádraig Ó Tuama joins us for part three of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning?

It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it? 

Here Pádraig Ó Tuama--poet, theologian, and peacemaker--returns to No Small Endeavor for an expansive, searching conv...

When Turning Point USA launches an “All-American Halftime Show” to rival Bad Bunny’s Super Bowl performance, it’s more than a musical critique, it’s a signal of a culture war. In this episode, Savannah and Lee unpack why something as ordinary as a halftime show can feel like a referendum on faith, family, and freedom. From the backlash that followed Reconstruction to Reagan’s alliance with the religious right, to today’s debates over gender, race, and education, the culture wars have always been about who stays in power. How can we interact with culture wars better? How should we...

Pádraig Ó Tuama joins us for part three of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning?

It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it? 

Here Pádraig Ó Tuama--poet, theologian, and peacemaker--returns to No Small Endeavor for an expansive, searching conversation about words, wounds, witness, and wisdom. Former leader of Ireland’s Corrymeela peace and reco...

This is our unabridged interview with Haleh Liza Gafori.

Haleh Liza Gafori joins us for part two of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning?

It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it? 

Here, Haleh Liza Gafori—poet, musician, and translator—guides us into the world of the Sufi poe...

When the “Liver King” built an empire on raw meat, steroids, and slogans about being “a real man,” what if he wasn’t selling a message based on muscles but mortality? In this episode, Savannah and Lee dig into how the fear of death shapes our obsession with control, strength, and self-sufficiency. Drawing from Untold: The Liver King, Scott Galloway’s research on the masculinity crisis, and Richard Beck’s The Slavery of Death, they trace a cultural thread that might tell us something about how we handle one of the rare, universal experiences: death.

Things we m...

Haleh Liza Gafori joins us for part two of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning?

It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it? 

Here, Haleh Liza Gafori—poet, musician, and translator—guides us into the world of the Sufi poet Rumi. We explore how his 13th-century Persian verse still speaks to the modern c...

Joy Harjo joins us for part one of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning?

It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it? 

Here, three‑term U.S. Poet Laureate Joy Harjo (Muskogee Creek Nation) shares how her poetry emerges from pain, memory, and fierce hope. She reflects on the loss and colonizati...

In this episode, Savannah and Lee celebrate the 25th anniversary of Gilmore Girls and use Melissa McCarthy’s viral story about Yanic Truesdale’s “fake” French accent as a springboard to talk about authenticity, faith, and what we’ve been trained to hear as “real.” From Luke’s Diner to the Sermon on the Mount, this episode asks: how do we tell the difference between the real thing and a good imitation…and would we even recognize Jesus’s accent if we heard it today?

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Fol...

Joy Harjo joins us for part one of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning?

It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it? 

Here, three‑term U.S. Poet Laureate Joy Harjo (Muskogee Creek Nation) shares how her poetry emerges from pain, memory, and fierce hope. She reflects on the loss and colonizati...

This is our unabridged interview with Garrett Graff.

What can it possibly mean to flourish in our tech saturated world?

In the early 2000s, the internet felt like a civic miracle in the making, with profound possibilities for human flourishing and civic progress. Facebook gave voice to protestors in Egypt’s Tahrir Square. Twitter helped bring down dictators. The web seemed poised to enhance democracy, amplify transparency, and connect us more deeply. But then the tide turned.

This episode features Garrett Graff, historian, journalist, and host of the award-winning podcast Lon...

When a Christian influencer warns moms that Taylor Swift will lead their daughters astray, the conversation has moved beyond pop music and into culture. In this episode, Savannah and Lee trace how the church has wrestled with cultural artifacts, including Niebuhr’s Christ and Culture, and what frameworks can help us understand modern reactions to celebrities like Swift. Then, they turn to Life of a Showgirl to explore how Taylor’s own storytelling exposes what we actually believe about celebrity, power, and holiness in the world.

Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTu...

What can it possibly mean to flourish in our tech saturated world?

In the early 2000s, the internet felt like a civic miracle in the making, with profound possibilities for human flourishing and civic progress. Facebook gave voice to protestors in Egypt’s Tahrir Square. Twitter helped bring down dictators. The web seemed poised to enhance democracy, amplify transparency, and connect us more deeply. But then the tide turned.

This episode features Garrett Graff, historian, journalist, and host of the award-winning podcast Long Shadow: Breaking the Internet. In this sobering conversation, Graff joins Lee to unp...

This is our unabridged interview with Anna Sale.

When Anna Sale launched Death, Sex & Money in 2014, she was 30 years old, newly divorced, living alone in a studio apartment in New York City, and trying to figure out what her life would become. She had covered politics as a reporter, but her personal world was unraveling. So she started asking strangers to talk about hard things, the questions she herself was desperate to explore: How do people rebuild after loss? What do we do with grief, shame, money, or fractured relationships? What does it mean to...

Here’s a preview of a new podcast series that Lee recently appeared in, The Alabama Murders from Revisionist History. Florence, Alabama. 1988. A preacher has an affair. A woman is murdered. One death cascades into more, stretching across decades and leaving no one untouched — victims, bystanders, perpetrators, and those just trying to help. On The Alabama Murders, Malcolm Gladwell asks: why, in our efforts to alleviate suffering, do we so often make it worse? Find Revisionist History: The Alabama Murders wherever you get podcasts.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Spotify CEO Daniel Ek invests in a military AI startup, it raises a deeper question: how do we live with integrity in systems that profit from harm? In this episode, we explore the uncomfortable relationship between the best and brightest, money, and violence—from Deerhoof’s protest to Oppenheimer’s legacy, from Walter Wink’s “powers that be” to Dorothy Day’s radical refusal to cooperate. Is resistance possible in a world where no dollar is clean? And what does the Kingdom of God have to do with any of it?

Follow The Subtext: ⁠⁠Ins...

When Anna Sale launched Death, Sex & Money in 2014, she was 30 years old, newly divorced, living alone in a studio apartment in New York City, and trying to figure out what her life would become. She had covered politics as a reporter, but her personal world was unraveling. So she started asking strangers to talk about hard things, the questions she herself was desperate to explore: How do people rebuild after loss? What do we do with grief, shame, money, or fractured relationships? What does it mean to live with honesty when the easy script disappears?

Over the pas...

This is our unabridged interview with Terence Lester.

It was three days before Christmas when Terence Lester’s family dropped him beneath a bridge in Atlanta. With no change of clothes and a biting winter cold, he began a month-long experiment in solidarity with the unhoused. Strangers offered blankets, socks, even stories around a firepit. It was humbling, painful, and life-altering. And it was from this crucible that Love Beyond Walls was born—a nonprofit dedicated to restoring dignity and community for those pushed to the margins: an exploration into what human flourishing might entail...

In this episode, Lee and Savannah explore why friendships are harder to form and sustain in today’s culture, despite living in the most “connected” era in history. They examine how technology and convenience have reshaped friendship from a priority into a luxury. They ask whether these shifts meet our deep human need for connection or quietly erode it. Ultimately, the conversation wrestles with how we might resist the forces of isolation and reclaim friendship as essential to a flourishing life.

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Follow...

It was three days before Christmas when Terence Lester’s family dropped him beneath a bridge in Atlanta. With no change of clothes and a biting winter cold, he began a month-long experiment in solidarity with the unhoused. Strangers offered blankets, socks, even stories around a firepit. It was humbling, painful, and life-altering. And it was from this crucible that Love Beyond Walls was born—a nonprofit dedicated to restoring dignity and community for those pushed to the margins: an exploration into what human flourishing might entail among the disenfranchised. 

In this episode of No Small...

This is our unabridged interview with Jen Hatmaker.

Jen Hatmaker's world unraveled at 2.00 a.m. one night when she awoke to hear her husband of 26 years lying beside her in bed, voice-texting his girlfriend. 

That's the brutal story with which Jen begins her new memoir, Awake: A Memoir of Reinvention and Recovery. It was the start of a long, painful journey—through grief, honesty with her self, and ultimately, toward authentic human flourishing.

Jen shares what it meant to lose not only her marriage, but also the public persona she had...

In this episode, Savannah Locke and Lee C. Camp dive into a critical discussion of the Netflix show "America's Sweethearts" and the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders' fight for fair wages. This sparks a broader conversation about the wealth gap, the commodification of labor—including human bodies—in professional sports, and the different types of justice. They explore why many American Christians might be hesitant to critique systemic wealth inequality, referencing historical Christian traditions on money and justice. Plus important public service announcements about skunks and shoes.

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Jen Hatmaker's world unraveled at 2.00 a.m. one night when she awoke to hear her husband of 26 years lying beside her in bed, voice-texting his girlfriend. 

That's the brutal story with which Jen begins her new memoir, Awake: A Memoir of Reinvention and Recovery. It was the start of a long, painful journey—through grief, honesty with her self, and ultimately, toward authentic human flourishing.

Jen shares what it meant to lose not only her marriage, but also the public persona she had spent decades building. Best known as a bestselling author and beloved Christian spea...

This is our unabridged interview with Max Lucado.

Called “America’s Pastor," Max Lucado has sold more than 150 million products and authored over 40 nonfiction books. In this vulnerable career retrospective interview, Lee explores what led Max Lucado to become almost synonymous with grace, acceptance and forgiveness--namely some of his own wounds from childhood experiences in a frugal, sometimes emotionally volatile West Texas home. He recounts stories of his mother--whom he deeply loved--struggling with undiagnosed depression and difficult mood swings; a cheerful and industrious father who modeled stability; and Max's own heavy drinking in his teen...

In this episode, we dissect the summer blockbuster Superman that flips the script by emphasizing vulnerability and humanity over untouchable power. Fans have praised the way the movie let Superman cry, lose, and even ask for help, while critics argue it made him too weak. We connect these reactions to questions of faith, asking what it means to worship a vulnerable God who suffered, wept, and even seemed to lose.

This episode was recorded on August 29, 2025.

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Fol...

Called “America’s Pastor," Max Lucado has sold more than 150 million products and authored over 40 nonfiction books. In this vulnerable career retrospective interview, Lee explores what led Max Lucado to become almost synonymous with grace, acceptance and forgiveness--namely some of his own wounds from childhood experiences in a frugal, sometimes emotionally volatile West Texas home. He recounts stories of his mother--whom he deeply loved--struggling with undiagnosed depression and difficult mood swings; a cheerful and industrious father who modeled stability; and Max's own heavy drinking in his teenage years. 

We also discuss Max's new book, Tame Your Thoughts, rooted...

This is our unabridged interview with Amy Sherman.

What if the church were known not for culture wars or abuses of power, but for building parks, strengthening schools, advancing science education, and championing restorative justice?

That’s the vision Amy L. Sherman lays out in her book Agents of Flourishing. In this conversation, Sherman invites us to imagine faith communities not as insular institutions, but as agents of civic renewal—places that contribute to the common good.

Her framework centers on six “endowments” of a thriving society: the Good, the True, th...

What if the church were known not for culture wars or abuses of power, but for building parks, strengthening schools, advancing science education, and championing restorative justice?

That’s the vision Amy L. Sherman lays out in her book Agents of Flourishing. In this conversation, Sherman invites us to imagine faith communities not as insular institutions, but as agents of civic renewal—places that contribute to the common good.

Her framework centers on six “endowments” of a thriving society: the Good, the True, the Beautiful, the Just, the Prosperous, and the Sustainable. Each is a way of a...

This is part one of our unabridged interview with Parker Palmer.

“Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.”

At 86 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive.

In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived with attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich l...

This is part two of our unabridged interview with Parker Palmer.

“Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.”

At 86 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive.

In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived with attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich l...

“Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.”

At 86 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive.

In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived with attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich life entails the embrace of paradox, and living through three major bouts of depression, which gave h...

This is our unabridged interview with Anne-Laure Le Cunff.

When Anne-Laure Le Cunff—then a high-achieving Google executive—was told to go to the hospital for a life-threatening blood clot, she found herself first checking her calendar. Her bizarre response told her something was wrong with her life and priorities. She left Silicon Valley, earned a degree in neuroscience, and wrote Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World.

In this conversation with Lee C. Camp, Le Cunff explores the neuroscience behind procrastination, perfectionism, and burnout. She introduces a radical yet p...

When Anne-Laure Le Cunff—then a high-achieving Google executive—was told to go to the hospital for a life-threatening blood clot, she found herself first checking her calendar. Her bizarre response told her something was wrong with her life and priorities. She left Silicon Valley, earned a degree in neuroscience, and wrote Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World.

In this conversation with Lee C. Camp, Le Cunff explores the neuroscience behind procrastination, perfectionism, and burnout. She introduces a radical yet practical shift: replacing rigid goal-setting with small, curiosity-driven experiments. Drawing from her research at Ki...

This is our unabridged interview with Baratunde Thurston.

What does it mean to be human in the age of AI?

From writing for The Onion to hosting PBS’s America Outdoors and launching the hit podcast Life With Machines, Baratunde Thurston has spent a career telling stories about interdependence—with one another, with the natural world, and now, with rising machine intelligence. Together, he and Lee unpack how AI both challenges and affirms our humanity, and what practices of democracy might guide us toward a more equitable technological future.

What does it mean to be human in the age of AI?

From writing for The Onion to hosting PBS’s America Outdoors and launching the hit podcast Life With Machines, Baratunde Thurston has spent a career telling stories about interdependence—with one another, with the natural world, and now, with rising machine intelligence. Together, he and Lee unpack how AI both challenges and affirms our humanity, and what practices of democracy might guide us toward a more equitable technological future.

Show Notes, Resources and Transcript

This is our unabridged interview with Dan Heath.

Do you feel like your life needs a reset? 

Lee C. Camp sits down with Dan Heath, bestselling author and host of the podcast What It's Like To Be, to explore strategies of how we can change, whether at work or in our personal lives. In his new book Reset: How to Change What’s Not Working, Dan shares proven techniques he discovered to help transform small observations into meaningful change, paving the way for a more satisfying life.

 ...

Do you feel like your life needs a reset? 

Lee C. Camp sits down with Dan Heath, bestselling author and host of the podcast What It's Like To Be, to explore strategies of how we can change, whether at work or in our personal lives. In his new book Reset: How to Change What’s Not Working, Dan shares proven techniques he discovered to help transform small observations into meaningful change, paving the way for a more satisfying life.

 ⁠Show Notes, Resources and Transcript⁠

No Small Endeavor: Explorin...

This is our unabridged interview with Sharon McMahon.

Have you ever wished someone would explain the inner workings of America’s political landscape — without taking sides or fueling the outrage machine? 

With over 1.3 million Instagram followers, Sharon McMahon, known affectionately as “America’s Government Teacher,” has spent her career doing exactly that. Drawing from her roots in public education, Sharon rose to prominence on social media during the chaotic 2020 election season. Her clear, fact-based explanations of complex government processes have garnered her a loyal following of self-proclaimed “Governerds,” and today, her teaching reache...

Have you ever wished someone would explain the inner workings of America’s political landscape — without taking sides or fueling the outrage machine? 

With over 1.3 million Instagram followers, Sharon McMahon, known affectionately as “America’s Government Teacher,” has spent her career doing exactly that. Drawing from her roots in public education, Sharon rose to prominence on social media during the chaotic 2020 election season. Her clear, fact-based explanations of complex government processes have garnered her a loyal following of self-proclaimed “Governerds,” and today, her teaching reaches millions through her acclaimed podcast, Here's Where It Gets Interesting, her best-selling book The Small...

This is our unabridged interview with Emma Varvaloucas.

What if the way you consume the news could shape the world for the better? 

In this stirring conversation, Lee C. Camp sits down with journalist and Buddhist practitioner Emma Varvaloucas, Executive Director of The Progress Network, to explore how we can reclaim our agency in a world addicted to anxiety. 

Emma shares practical tips for engaging with the news that not only have the potential to reduce despair but may unlock new energy to take action for a better world. Drawing fr...

What if the way you consume the news could shape the world for the better? 

In this stirring conversation, Lee C. Camp sits down with journalist and Buddhist practitioner Emma Varvaloucas, Executive Director of The Progress Network, to explore how we can reclaim our agency in a world addicted to anxiety. 

Emma shares practical tips for engaging with the news that not only have the potential to reduce despair but may unlock new energy to take action for a better world. Drawing from her journey through Buddhism, therapy, and even psychedelics, Emma offers tools for tr...

This is our unabridged interview with Melina Laboucan-Massimo.

What does perseverance look like on the long road to justice? 

Melina Laboucan-Massimo was born in the Lubicon Cree community of Little Buffalo, in what today is called northern Alberta. Some of her earliest memories include chasing dragonflies through pristine wilderness and protesting with her family against the oil and gas companies that threatened their way of life. Melina spent decades tirelessly advocating for climate justice and indigenous rights, until recently, when the Alberta wildfires left her bedridden and exhausted. Today, Melina and Lee d...

What does perseverance look like on the long road to justice? 

Melina Laboucan-Massimo was born in the Lubicon Cree community of Little Buffalo, in what today is called northern Alberta. Some of her earliest memories include chasing dragonflies through pristine wilderness and protesting with her family against the oil and gas companies that threatened their way of life. Melina spent decades tirelessly advocating for climate justice and indigenous rights, until recently, when the Alberta wildfires left her bedridden and exhausted. Today, Melina and Lee discuss her journey back to health and the pathways forward, g...

This is our unabridged interview with Michael Luo.

When journalist Michael Luo was told to “go back to China” on a Manhattan sidewalk, it sparked a deeply personal journey into America’s past. In his new book Strangers in the Land, Luo unearths the overlooked history of Chinese exclusion in the U.S.—from early migrations and violent hostility to the nation’s first racially targeted immigration laws. He reflects on the enduring legacies of that history and the echoes we see today. Michael explores not just patterns of injustice but also stories of resilience...

When journalist Michael Luo was told to “go back to China” on a Manhattan sidewalk, it sparked a deeply personal journey into America’s past. In his new book Strangers in the Land, Luo unearths the overlooked history of Chinese exclusion in the U.S.—from early migrations and violent hostility to the nation’s first racially targeted immigration laws. He reflects on the enduring legacies of that history and the echoes we see today. Michael explores not just patterns of injustice but also stories of resilience and solidarity that offer a hopeful vision for America’s future.

This is our unabridged interview Astro Teller.

In a world that is increasingly dominated by profit over people, it’s easy to be cynical about the future. But what if there was a different way forward? Could capitalism, technology, and human flourishing go hand in hand, and what would it take to get us there?

In this episode, Lee Camp invites Astro Teller, co-founder and "Captain of Moonshots" at Alphabet’s X, into a conversation about reshaping the business narrative. From developing sticker technology to track global goods more sustainably, to pioneering affo...

In a world that is increasingly dominated by profit over people, it’s easy to be cynical about the future. But what if there was a different way forward? Could capitalism, technology, and human flourishing go hand in hand, and what would it take to get us there?

In this episode, Lee Camp invites Astro Teller, co-founder and "Captain of Moonshots" at Alphabet’s X, into a conversation about reshaping the business narrative. From developing sticker technology to track global goods more sustainably, to pioneering affordable ways to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, Astro shares how he t...

This is our unabridged interview with David Blight.

 “If you’re not ready on some level for the tragedies of history, they’re coming to get you.”

 In September of 2020 Professor David Blight got an unexpected call from his boss. The President of Yale wanted Blight to work on a project about Yale’s historical involvement with slavery. The undertaking was so enormous that the Pulitzer Prize winning historian remembers sitting on the phone “wishing that conversation wasn't happening.” But 4 years later the book was published. Yale and Slavery: A History has been lauded as “th...

“If you’re not ready on some level for the tragedies of history, they’re coming to get you.”

 In September of 2020 Professor David Blight got an unexpected call from his boss. The President of Yale wanted Blight to work on a project about Yale’s historical involvement with slavery. The undertaking was so enormous that the Pulitzer Prize winning historian remembers sitting on the phone “wishing that conversation wasn't happening.” But 4 years later the book was published. Yale and Slavery: A History has been lauded as “the most mature examination ever made of the role of slavery in a univ...

This is our unabridged interview with Juliet Schor.

Are we working too much?

 “Time is a vital resource for us to connect with each other, to connect with the earth and …to come together in solidarity, to try and fix what's wrong.”

 We have accepted the 5 day work week as the status quo—caught in a cycle of working more so we can spend more, just to keep up with the Jones’. But what if there's a better way to live: For our own happiness, the economy, and our planet? 

 Econom...

Are we working too much?

 “Time is a vital resource for us to connect with each other, to connect with the earth and …to come together in solidarity, to try and fix what's wrong.”

 We have accepted the 5 day work week as the status quo—caught in a cycle of working more so we can spend more, just to keep up with the Jones’. But what if there's a better way to live: For our own happiness, the economy, and our planet? 

 Economist and Sociologist Juliet Schor, has spent decades researching the way we work, and h...

This is our unabridged interview with Jemar Tisby.

 “The work of justice is daunting…It requires courage.”

 Have you found yourself asking the question “what can I do in the face of so much injustice?” Historian and New York Times bestselling author Jemar Tisby may have some answers for you. From his own experience as one of the only Black worshipers at the “color-blind” Evangelical services of his youth, to his political awakening in the wake of Michael Brown’s murder in Ferguson, Missouri. Tisby explores the history of social justice in the Christian fait...

“The work of justice is daunting…It requires courage.”

 Have you found yourself asking the question “what can I do in the face of so much injustice?” Historian and New York Times bestselling author Jemar Tisby may have some answers for you. From his own experience as one of the only Black worshipers at the “color-blind” Evangelical services of his youth, to his political awakening in the wake of Michael Brown’s murder in Ferguson, Missouri. Tisby explores the history of social justice in the Christian faith tradition, and asks why the white church has so often relinquished its...

This is our unabridged interview with Amy Grant.

Five weeks before her 16th birthday in 1976, Amy Grant was offered her first record deal. Now, after tens of millions of record sales, six Grammy awards, a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and a receipt of Kennedy Center Honors, she is widely recognized as the “Queen of Christian Pop.”

 From the outside, one might assume that Amy must be a character with a personality larger than life. But in this exclusive interview, Amy opens up about her career as a singer, her famil...

Renowned theologian Walter Brueggemann passed away in June 2025 at the age of 92. In this special retrospective episode of No Small Endeavor, we celebrate his remarkable life and legacy. Drawing from memorable conversations and insightful lectures, we revisit Brueggemann’s piercing critique of what he called the "totalism of market ideology"—the pervasive cultural force shaping American thought and suppressing dissenting voices. With characteristic wisdom, clarity, and wit, Brueggemann challenges us to reject narratives of scarcity, fear, and commodification, inviting us instead into the hopeful vision he famously described as the "prophetic imagination." Listen as he shares personal stories, intellectual turn...

Five weeks before her 16th birthday in 1976, Amy Grant was offered her first record deal. Now, after tens of millions of record sales, six Grammy awards, a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and a receipt of Kennedy Center Honors, she is widely recognized as the “Queen of Christian Pop.”

 From the outside, one might assume that Amy must be a character with a personality larger than life. But in this exclusive interview, Amy opens up about her career as a singer, her family life, and her faith, all against the backdrop of a troubling past few y...

This is our unabridged interview with Charles Marsh.

 Has religion ever kept you from doing something that was actually good for you?

 It did for Charles Marsh. As a boy growing up in the evangelical South, Charles was taught to distrust his own body, to fear his desires, and to treat suffering as a gift from God. So when debilitating panic attacks shattered his world as a young man, he thought that he should count these panic attacks as something he was supposed to feel “joy” about.

 Charles is now the Com...

Has religion ever kept you from doing something that was actually good for you?

 It did for Charles Marsh. As a boy growing up in the evangelical South, Charles was taught to distrust his own body, to fear his desires, and to treat suffering as a gift from God. So when debilitating panic attacks shattered his world as a young man, he thought that he should count these panic attacks as something he was supposed to feel “joy” about.

 Charles is now the Commonwealth Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Virginia. Find out how he...

This is our unabridged interview with Holy Post.

 Can you do insider critique with a sense of humor?

 You might know Phil Vischer as the creator of the beloved children’s show VeggieTales, or Skye Jethani for his work as a pastor, speaker, and author. Both of them are long-time public Christian voices.

 These days, though, they find themselves hosting the Holy Post podcast, doing the hard work of insider critique of a Christian subculture that, in recent years, has boiled over with white nationalism, Trumpism, and many forms of injus...

Can you do insider critique with a sense of humor?

 You might know Phil Vischer as the creator of the beloved children’s show VeggieTales, or Skye Jethani for his work as a pastor, speaker, and author. Both of them are long-time public Christian voices.

 These days, though, they find themselves hosting the Holy Post podcast, doing the hard work of insider critique of a Christian subculture that, in recent years, has boiled over with white nationalism, Trumpism, and many forms of injustice. In this episode, they discuss how they try to do their work with...

This is our unabridged interview with Freddie O'Connell.

 “If we want to thrive across the board, then there has to be an accounting for the fact that you may have things that befall you in your life that you have no control over.”

 In this episode of No Small Endeavor, Lee C. Camp sits down with Nashville Mayor Freddie O’Connell for a conversation about moral leadership, political realism, and the promise of community. 

 Growing up in Nashville, Freddie O’Connell was eager to leave for Brown University. But after his career i...

“If we want to thrive across the board, then there has to be an accounting for the fact that you may have things that befall you in your life that you have no control over.”

 In this episode of No Small Endeavor, Lee C. Camp sits down with Nashville Mayor Freddie O’Connell for a conversation about moral leadership, political realism, and the promise of community. 

 Growing up in Nashville, Freddie O’Connell was eager to leave for Brown University. But after his career in tech was interrupted by the dot com collapse, a “catastrophic transmission...

This is our unabridged interview with Michele Norris.

 “I wanted to create a vehicle that allowed people to talk about this allegedly toxic topic on their own terms.”- Michele Norris. 

 Could you describe your experience of race in America in just 6 words? That’s the very thing Journalist Michele Norris asked 200 strangers to do back in 2015, when she printed a stack of postcards with these simple directions: Race, your story, 6 words, please send. What began as an exercise to spark conversation became The Race Card Project, a growing online archive comprising over 750...

“I wanted to create a vehicle that allowed people to talk about this allegedly toxic topic on their own terms.”- Michele Norris. 

 Could you describe your experience of race in America in just 6 words? That’s the very thing Journalist Michele Norris asked 200 strangers to do back in 2015, when she printed a stack of postcards with these simple directions: Race, your story, 6 words, please send. What began as an exercise to spark conversation became The Race Card Project, a growing online archive comprising over 750,000 answers from Americans of every ethnicity and corner of the country. The response...

This is our unabridged interview with Kristin Neff.

 Is high self-esteem crucial to human flourishing, or, rather, a hindrance?

 “The biggest problem with self-esteem is that it tends to be contingent,” says Kristin Neff. “We only feel good about ourselves when we succeed.” Far too often, high self-esteem breeds narcissism, bullying, and prejudice.

 Kristin is a professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin. She’s also a prominent expert on the topic of self-compassion, which her research has found to be much more effective than self-esteem in helping pe...

Today, we are sharing an episode of “What It’s Like to Be…” from author Dan Heath. 

 On the podcast, Dan explores the world of work, one profession at a time, and interviews people who love what they do. He finds out: What does a couples therapist think when a friend asks for relationship advice? Is a Secret Service Agent supposed to pretend like they’re not there when they’re around the president? What are the 3 clocks that govern the life of a long-haul truck driver? If you’ve ever met someone whose work you were curious about, a...

In stressful times, what if the key to mental and emotional well-being was not a mystery, but a set of daily, accessible practices that you could start today?

 In this special compilation episode we’ve curated guidance from some of the world’s leading voices in the science of wellbeing—including Dacher Keltner, Kristin Neff, Robert Waldinger, Marc Schulz, Judith Moskowitz, Marisa Franco, Amishi Jha, and Oliver Burkeman—to explore how awe, self-compassion, relationships and mindfulness shape our lives and minds.

 You’ll learn how experiences of awe can dramatically improve immune health and reduce anxiety; why...

This is our unabridged interview with Sissy Goff.

 We are living in a rapidly changing world. Whether politics, technology, or climate - the future that our children face will likely look very different than previous generations. Given the modern challenges of smartphones, social media, and rising mental health issues, should our parenting also be evolving?

 Sissy Goff is the author of 13 books full of practical parenting advice for just such questions. She's been counseling for over 30 years, and her latest project focuses on building resilience in children. In this episode Sissy shares pr...

There is no doubt that we are living in a rapidly changing world. Whether the topic is politics, technology, or climate - the future that our children face will likely look very different than previous generations. Given the modern challenges of smartphones, social media, and rising mental health issues, should our parenting also be evolving?

 Sissy Goff is the author of 13 books full of practical parenting advice for just such questions. She's been counseling kids and families for over 30 years, and her latest project focuses on building resilience in children. In this episode Sissy shares practical strategies e...

This is our unabridged interview with Sheryl Crow.

 After a stellar performance on No Small Endeavor Live, 9 time Grammy Winner Sheryl Crow sits down with Lee to discuss the tension between ambition and creativity, the profound realization that accompanied her breast cancer diagnosis, and the impact of mindfulness and meditation on her daily life. Crow also tells the story behind her posthumous duet with Johnny Cash, the social advocacy that has defined her career, and how embracing an unconventional life led her to motherhood. All that, plus Sheryl's musical performance at No Small Endeavor: L...

After a stellar performance on No Small Endeavor Live, 9 time Grammy Winner Sheryl Crow sits down with Lee to discuss the tension between ambition and creativity, the profound realization that accompanied her breast cancer diagnosis, and the impact of mindfulness and meditation on her daily life. Crow also tells the story behind her posthumous duet with Johnny Cash, the social advocacy that has defined her career, and how embracing an unconventional life led her to motherhood. All that, plus Sheryl's musical performance at No Small Endeavor: Live! Join us as we explore the challenges and triumphs of over 3 decades...

This is our unabridged interview with Mike Cosper.

 How do you raise criticisms about a group of which you consider yourself to be a member?

 Mike Cosper hosted The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, a podcast critiquing a lot of the tendencies of American Christianity. “ People are looking at Christianity and saying, is it true?” he says. “I think where I landed after my own negative experiences was asking, is it good?”

 In this episode, we cover some of the key issues such a question has raised for Mike - like cele...

 How do you raise criticisms about a group of which you consider yourself to be a member?

 Mike Cosper hosted The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill, a podcast critiquing a lot of the tendencies of American Christianity. “ People are looking at Christianity and saying, is it true?” he says. “I think where I landed after my own negative experiences was asking, is it good?”

 In this episode, we cover some of the key issues such a question has raised for Mike - like celebrity culture and toxic masculinity - as well as what it’s like to do...

This is our unabridged interview with Rainn Wilson.

Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica… and spirituality?

In a time of cultural division and political polarization, what role can spirituality play in healing our fractured world? Rainn Wilson—best known as Dwight Schrute from The Office—isn't just a comedy icon. He’s also become an unlikely voice for spiritual reflection in Hollywood, where such conversations are often taboo. In this candid and thought-provoking interview, Wilson opens up about why he believes our divided world desperately needs a renewed spiritual vocabulary—and what that might look like...

Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica… and spirituality?

In a time of cultural division and political polarization, what role can spirituality play in healing our fractured world? Rainn Wilson—best known as Dwight Schrute from The Office—isn't just a comedy icon. He’s also become an unlikely voice for spiritual reflection in Hollywood, where such conversations are often taboo. In this candid and thought-provoking interview, Wilson opens up about why he believes our divided world desperately needs a renewed spiritual vocabulary—and what that might look like beyond traditional religion.

 Show Notes

 Resource...

This is our unabridged interview with Marisa Franco.

 How important is it to have friends?

 Loneliness has reached epidemic levels in many countries, with research suggesting that it’s harder than ever for us to make and keep friends. And according to Marisa Franco, the issue isn’t trivial. “ Loneliness is as toxic for our bodies as smoking 15 cigarettes a day,” she says. “We are fundamentally social creatures… it's okay that you really want friends.”

 In this episode, she explains why friendship is a crucial aspect of a flourishing life, and gives helpful...

How important is it to have friends?

 Loneliness has reached epidemic levels in many countries, with research suggesting that it’s harder than ever for us to make and keep friends. And according to Marisa Franco, the issue isn’t trivial. “ Loneliness is as toxic for our bodies as smoking 15 cigarettes a day,” she says. “We are fundamentally social creatures… it's okay that you really want friends.”

 In this episode, she explains why friendship is a crucial aspect of a flourishing life, and gives helpful advice for those looking to make and keep friends.

 Sh...