The Wholesome Music Podcast
By: Cameron Ljungkull & Augustus Watkins
Language: en-us
Categories: Music, Commentary, History, Arts, Performing
The DIY podcast about DIY music. Hosts Cameron Ljungkull and Augustus Watkins meet weekly to talk shop about indie music, the creative process, and the music industry.
Episodes
State of the GRAMMYs / Rap embraces art / YouTube vs Billboards / Spotify hacked
Jan 08, 2026We're back for 2026 with a look at the Grammy's. Are they still relevant? What's it take to get nominated? Is being part of the Grammy's something indie artists should aspire to? Next we look at how rap is embracing the visual art world. YouTube is set to stop reporting to Billboard because of a disagreement between the two organizations about how free streams should be counted. Finally, Spotify has been hacked! Who did it, what did they steal, and how can you get in on it?
Plus we're adding a brand new weekly segment called "Take It...
All About Christmas Music
Dec 25, 2025Kids, mom and dad love you very much, but things got a little hectic this holiday season, so we just got you something small... a Christmas mini-episode! We talk about holiday music strategy, trends in Christmas music—including why it starts so early now—and how and why musicians choose to do so many Christmas songs. It may be a little late for this year, but we'll set you up to succeed for next year.
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OPINION: Modern Christmas music doesn’t hold up by Ashley Ragone for The SignalIs Christmas Starting Earlier and Earlie... Duration: 00:14:04Gene Simmons testifies before Congress / iHeartRadio 'guaranteed human' / Jay-Z invests in K-Pop
Dec 17, 2025They say politics make for strange bedfellows, and that's never been more true than when The Wholesome Music Podcast is forced to give props to Gene Simmons (who is gross). He recently testified before US Congress, urging them to close the loophole that lets radio stations not pay for music. Next, we catch up on iHeartRadio's efforts to brand themselves as "Guaranteed Human," and finally we look at investments Jay Z is making in K-pop and "K-culture" and what that could mean for the future of music.
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'That's Called robbery': Gene Simmons Urges US Congress... Duration: 00:44:17Is Spotify Wrapped cooked? / Vinyl sales still growing / Dan Wilson's songwriting tip
Dec 11, 2025Are you sure that Spotify actually knows what your musical taste is? And do you really want to outsource your opinions to a profit-driven algorithm? It's Spotify Wrapped season! Next, we look at 2025 vinyl sales trends. Vinyl is on the rise, but why? And what do you need to know about vinyl for your own career? Finally, we talk songwriting: mega-songwriter Dan Wilson shares great tips on songwriting, and we discuss natural language, why it's dominating the charts, and how you can use it in your songs!
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This Spotify Wrapped season, don’t ou... Duration: 00:46:39The Nostalgia Episode: Are Bands Obsolete? / Phone Bans at Raves / MP3 Players Return / Local Music In Decline
Dec 04, 2025This episode has a decidedly backwards-looking approach. Did you know the last time a band had a #1 song on the US charts was all the way back in 2001? We dig into why are there so few bands in the charts these days. Next we look at two retro trends and discuss if they're linked as well as what they say about tech backlash in the music industry. Finally, we talk about why local music is in decline in Australia, why that matters globally, and what can be done about it.
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Are bands becoming obsolete in... Duration: 00:57:09Copyrighting Your Music / Gratitude / Major 3 AI "Strategic Partnerships" / Backlash to TIDAL / Tyler, The Creator / Travis Scott's Record Breaking Tour
Nov 26, 2025Should YOU register your music with the copyright office? Our final installment on How Musicians Get Paid has answers! Next, in the spirt of Thanksgiving we talk about what we're grateful for in our music careers this year. After that: a major spate of music industry and AI collaborations were announced... but what does it actually mean? We discuss the backlash to Tidal's new upload program, then look at a few hip hop artists still making moves in 2025 (Hip Hop is not dead!).
Be sure to check the links for our our copyright guide!
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How Performers Get Paid / TIDAL's New Upload Feature / Spotify Buys WhoSampled / Suno Fundraiser / AI-Generated Country Is Charting
Nov 20, 2025Part three of our "How Musicians Get Paid" series zeroes in on how performers get paid, including the ins and outs of distribution, SoundExchange, and a couple little-known revenue sources for session musicians. We look at TIDAL's new direct upload feature and what this means for indie musicians and the culture. We profile a recent Spotify acquisition and their new efforts to offer more robust credits and discuss SUNO's new fundraising. Finally, we react to "Walk My Walk," the new AI-generated song that is actually charting in the Billboard country charts.
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How Songwriters, Composers, and... Duration: 01:16:08How Songwriters Get Paid / Publishing Deals / Spotify’s Payola Lawsuit / Ireland’s UBI / Kanye West's “Apology”
Nov 13, 2025Part two of our "How musicians get paid" series dives into how songwriters make money, followed by a discussion on publishing deals. Then we break down Spotify’s new “payola” lawsuit, look at Ireland’s universal basic income for musicians, and talk about Kanye West’s recent public apology.
A lil’ music-biz, a lil’ legal tea, and a whole lot of game for songwriters trying to level up.
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How Songwriters, Composers, and Performers Get Paid by Copyright.gov Class Action Lawsuit Accuses Spotify of Engaging in "Payola" in Discover Mode By Daniel Kreps for... Duration: 01:01:52Origins of Music Copyright / No Rap In Top 40 / PRO's Allow Partial AI / Billie Eilish Calls Out Zuck / Cam'Ron vs. J. Cole
Nov 05, 2025For months we've been promising you a breakdown on how to get paid in the music industry, and we launch part one of this discussion with a quick overview on the history of music copyright, to help us understand why music copyright is so convoluted. After that, we look at why there are no rap songs in the Billboard Top 40 — the first time since 1990. In AI news, ASCAP, BMI, and SOCAN have announced new plans to accept some kinds of AI authorship. Next, we cheer on Billie Eilish for calling out Mark Zuckerberg for being a POS billionaire. Finally, wh...
Duration: 01:06:52Creative Restrictions / Billboard Tweaks / Lizzo Sued / Chappell Roan's LGBTQ+ Support / YouTube's Massive Payout
Oct 30, 2025Can you place creative restrictions on yourself and actually grow as an artist? We use a fun blog post as a jumping off point to discuss how "doing less" can actually fuel your process. Next, we look at how Billboard is tweaking its "Hot 100" charts, and what that means for who will chart (or not). Lizzo—no stranger to lawsuits—is facing another one about an unreleased song, presenting an interesting wrinkle in how samples are monetized. We celebrate Chappell Roan's Midwest Princess Project which is donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to LGBTQ+ organizations, and finally look at YouT...
Duration: 00:58:33Crushing It On Gig Day / SoundExchange AI Registry / Timbaland's Soulless New AI Artist / UMG's Influencer App / Beatport Ticketing
Oct 22, 2025Finally it's gig day! After all the rehearsals and promotion, it's time to jump on stage and show the crowd what you've got. How do you make the best of this day, make sure it goes smoothly, and get the most of your opportunity? We'll share some hard-earned experiences and lessons. Next, we look at SoundExchange's new global AI registry, what it does (and doesn't) do. Then, our first villain Timbaland (see ep. 3 for more) returns with a new AI artist called Tata Taktumi, and we react to "her" music video. Next we discuss UMG's new influencer app and...
Duration: 01:02:23Pitching Yourself / Handling Rejection / Live Nation / Spotify x ChatGPT / Taylor Swift / The Downfall of Drake
Oct 15, 2025We break down how to pitch yourself as an artist — from telling your story and defining your “why” to stating your artistic pedigree. Next we also unpack Bob Brody’s piece “Stay True to Yourself – and Fly Closer to the Sun” and his lessons from 50 years of rejection. Then we look at how Portland’s music scene stood up to Live Nation–Ticketmaster, and dive into Spotify’s new ChatGPT integration that’s changing how artists get discovered. Finally, we briefly dunk on Drake for losing his lawsuit against Kendrick Lamar.
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‘Stay true to yourself – and fly closer to the sun’... Duration: 01:25:57Marketing Masterclass / AI Music Detection / Ticketmaster CEO Says Tickets are Too Cheap / Ed Sheeran's Plans for Dying / Spotify in Serato
Oct 09, 2025We discuss a marketing masterclass to help you cut through the noise and get your music heard. Then we look at the newest AI detection measures from Spotify, Universal, and Sony Music. We share Ed Sheeran's plan for his posthumous album. Then we deploy our dueling hot takes about ticket prices. Finally, we look at the new D4VD updates (with a CW for violence and grooming).
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Symphonic Masterclass Recap: Fueling Your Next Release with Marketing Drivers by Randi ZimmermanSpotify has deleted 75m+ ‘spammy tracks’ – as it unveils new AI music policiesBy Mur... Duration: 01:12:05
Cover Songs / Coachella Booking / Avoiding Burnout / GFY Records / Kate Hudson / Green Day / D4VD Update
Oct 02, 2025We answer one of the most commonly asked questions in music: how do I legally cover other people's songs? Hint: it's easier than you think! Then we take a deep dive into all the agencies, labels, artists, and genres behind this year's Coachella, and what the data reveals about the state of the music industry. Next we discuss tools and strategies for avoiding burnout when it comes to the business side of your career. Then some news about Kate Hudson, Green Day, and songwriter Julia Michaels' new label, GFY Records. And an update on the D4VD story.
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Reaching Gatekeepers / Bad Bunny Skips America / 21 Pilots vs Temu / King Gizz on Bandcamp / D4VD / Kanye
Sep 25, 2025Like it or not, gatekeepers are a part of the music industry. We talk about some ways to connect with gatekeepers, and help you get a "Yes!" Next, we discuss how Bad Bunny is protecting his audience from ICE by skipping America on his upcoming world tour. We look at 21 Pilots' lawsuit against Temu, what King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard are doing on Bandcamp, get juicy with the D4VD gossip, and round it out with a Kanye West's Donda Academy — who could have possibly expected Ye wasn't up to the job of running a school?
Li... Duration: 00:52:33
Beating the Algorithm Blues / Musicians Unions / Marketing Automation / Vinyl Safe from Tariffs
Sep 18, 2025Everyone's talking about AI and algorithms but there are still plenty of people and places to find human-curated music, so we highlight a few places to look. Next we profile UMAW — United Musicians and Allied Workers — who have been doing great work to support indie and DIY musicians. We talk about some tools designed to automate your music marketing, and go over the latest on tariffs and vinyl.
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Why Local Radio Is The Antidote To Your Algorithm Blues by Elliott Nielson for Mixcloud BlogBandcamp Launches Human-Curated 'Bandcamp Clubs' at $13 a Month by Daniel Tenc... Duration: 00:41:28Running a DIY Space / SEO for Musicians / Fully Licensed Generative AI / Spotify Messages / YouTube Hype
Sep 11, 2025We talk about what we've learned from years of running DIY spaces, events, and groups, and how you can apply these lessons to your own career. Then we go over some great tips for SEO and discoverability for musicians. On the AI front, we discuss a new generative AI model that claims to be fully licensed (and how we might be wrong about AI slop), look at the latest developments on Suno's indie artist lawsuit, and how a lawsuit in the book publishing industry could impact musicians. Finally we look a couple new features from streamers, including YouTube Hype...
Duration: 01:12:46Email vs Social Media / Monetizing Superfans / Quitting Social Media / Radio Rate Increase / Lil Nas X
Sep 04, 2025We discuss the the pros and cons of email marketing vs social media. Then we highlight an artist who has quit social media and streaming entirely. We discuss the new ASCAP and BMI rate increases for radio, go over a service to promote live events on YouTube, and discuss how the streaming economy is unflattening as streaming services look to capitalize on superfans. We talk about Lil Nas X, Taylor and Travis, Chance The Rapper's comeback, and finally Apple Music's new LA studios.
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Promoting Your Music: Email vs Social Media Marketing by Musician Indie Coalition... Duration: 01:14:56Music Lawyers / The Truth About Recoupment / Fair Use / Money For Songwriters
Aug 27, 2025Are music lawyers the biggest secret in the music industry? How do major labels ACTUALLY recoup your money — the math is worse than you think! What is "Fair Use" and how is it impacting YouTube? How songwriters are adapting to the new rules of the music industry. Also, Cameron drops his Chappell Roan hot take.
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Fair Use: https://copyright.wp.musiclibraryassoc.org/statement-on-the-copyright-law-and-fair-use-in-music/More Fair Use: https://digitalpromise.org/initiative/360-story-lab/360-production-guide/investigate/360-media/post-production/copyright-fair-use/How Music Attorneys Help Artists Navigate Confusing Record Contracts in a Post-Streaming Revolution, Chappell Roan-Enlightened World by To... Duration: 01:01:59Artists Leaving Spotify / Standing Up Against the Genocide in Gaza / Yung Thug and the RAP Act / YouTube fighting AI slop / Certified Generative AI
Aug 20, 2025A number of established artists are leaving Spotify. Should you? Should we? How artists support each other as they stand up against the genocide in Gaza. Yung Thug and the RAP act. The collective building the next Bandcamp. We have an update on Super Fans. We spotlight ONErpm. What's YouTube doing to combat AI slop on their platform? And how can artists use AI to help their careers — without generating songs?
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Massive Attack, Kneecap, Brian Eno, Fontaines D.C. announce formation of musicians’ alliance to repel Zionist attacks by David Walsh https://www.wsws... Duration: 01:03:04DIY Music Videos pt. 2 / Music Management / Superfans / Soundcloud's AI Policy
Aug 13, 2025We got so excited to talk about DIY music videos that we came back around for another round. When should you shoot vertical or horizontal? How can you find great locations? What video editing software is best?
After that, we look at the proliferation of music business education. How does a degree stack up against real-world experience? We talk about superfans, their importance, and caveats when promoting to them. What kinds of communities will develop as a backlash against AI music? And a look at how Soundcloud updated their AI policy.
🎵 Superfans are deeply eng... Duration: 01:06:25DIY music videos / New tax breaks for musicians / Warner layoffs / The future of TikTok
Aug 06, 2025What's it take to make a DIY music video? Also, some rare good news from the government in 2025: the HITS act is a new tax break for indie musicians! We discuss layoffs at Warner Music Group. And what's the latest news for TikTok, and what does it mean for musicians?
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SoundCloud Still Matters for Emerging Artists - Here’s Why by Ben Jolley on Chartmetric.com https://hmc.chartmetric.com/soundcloud-trends-2025-josh-baker-electronic/HITS Act becomes law in a Big Win For Independent Artists by Randi Zimmerman via Symphonic Bl... Duration: 00:43:47Activism / The Velvet Sundown / Social Media / Compilations / Zines / Sample Packs / Artist Corporations
Aug 03, 2025What is “adding value” on social media? How can musicians use their platform to help others? Zines and other forms of physical media are making a comeback. The co-founder of Kickstarter introduces artist corporations. The death of the middle class musician. We also wade into the fake AI bands controversy, including Velvet Sundown.
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Social Media Replaced Zines. Now Zines Are Taking the Power Back by C. Brandon Ogbunu for Wired https://www.wired.com/story/zines-social-media-power/The Death of the Middle-Class Musician by Lucy Rinaldi for The Walrus https://thewalrus.ca/the-d... Duration: 01:00:09Money / Day Jobs / Vinyl Costs / Tariffs / AI Brainrot
Jul 31, 2025Everyone in the music industry has a day job. The people who make a living in the music industry serve others. Most of us are actually consumers and hobbyists — and that’s okay. Meanwhile, Project 2025 and the administration is coming for your vinyl. Finally, is ChatGPT cooking your brain?
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Why Tariffs Are Quitely Undermining The American Vinyl Comeback by Chris Castle for Music Technology Policy https://musictechpolicy.com/2025/06/19/why-tariffs-are-quietly-undermining-the-american-vinyl-comeback/If I Press Vinyl, Will I Make My Money Back? by Tony van Veen, Diskmakers Blog https://blog.discmakers.com/2025/01/is-vinyl-worth-the-cost/Suno... Duration: 00:46:48Analytics / Failed Promo Tactics / AI + Record Labels / Indie Execs Sound Off / Better Rhyme Schemes
Jul 24, 2025Let's talk about analytics and dashboards! What music promo tactics are cooked in 2025? And what works, according to indie music executives? Suno and Udio's potential licensing deal with major labels could be a major shift in creators rights. New Grammy category. We also explore previously unheard of rhyme schemes.
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What Music Promo Tactics Don't Work Anymore? by Yona Marie https://www.indieonthemove.com/blog/2025/6/what-music-promo-tactics-dont-work-anymoreWhat Suno And Udio’s AI Licensing Deals With Music Majors Could Mean For Creators Rights by Virginie Berger https://www.forbes.com/sites/virginieberger/2025/06/06/what-suno-and-udios-ai-licensing-deals-with-music-majors-could-mean-for-creators-rights/W... Duration: 01:17:42Good Collabs / LA in 2025 / Mental Health / TikTok for Artists / Timbaland's Weird AI Take / Goldman Sachs Music Forecast
Jul 16, 2025What makes a good recording session or a good collaborator? What's really going on in LA in 2025? (Spoiler: it's not an urban hellscape warzone). We'll also share some artist mental health resources, discuss TikTok's new artist tools, and stare deeply at Timbaland's very weird take on AI. A Goldman Sachs report gets reviewed — shout out to global banking, we love you. Oh, and our transition game is impeccable.
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Artists Often Pay For Their Own Health Care — This Is Their Biggest Expense By Elizabeth Dilts Marshall for Billboard https://www.billboard.com/pro/t... Duration: 01:00:36Social Media for Musicians Who Don’t Like to Do Social Media
Jul 10, 2025Cameron Ljungkull and Augustus Watkins break down social media strategies for reluctant posters. Then we talk about the way the tech industry has changed the "soft power" of American culture, share some mental health resources for musicians, and discuss the new era of 360 deals. We also tempt fate by calling out UMG's famously rowdy legal team.
Meta, TikTok, Spotify & New Rules of Soft Power by Mark Mulligan via Music Industry Blog https://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2025/05/meta-tiktok-spotify-the-new-rules-of-soft-power-mark-mulligan-of-midia.htmlMental Health Resources for Musicians in 2025 By Randi Zimmerman https://blog.symphonic.com/2025/05/01/mental-health-resources-for-musicians/20 years a... Duration: 00:46:59Music Marketing / Social Media / Coachella / Rising Ticket Costs / AI Slop
Jul 01, 2025Welcome to Wholesome Music Podcast with Cameron Ljungkull and Augustus Watkins. It's our first episode and we're talking about the right time to get a manager, the creator economy, how social media broke capitalism, the economics of touring, AI brainrot music, and more!
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